2,000-name petition fuels protest over £20m Brixham Tesco supermarket bid

“Oh yes, The Big Lie. Brats know all about that don't they? How many times have they told us that they have a viable alternative proposal that will produce the same benefits for Brixham? 25? 50? 100? They are obviously in the 'if you say it loud and often enough prople will believe it' camp aren't they? And how many viable alternative proposals have they come up with so far? None. They criticise, condemn and complain and yet put nothing forward themselves.
In fact you said you had not one but two viable alternative proposals yourself didn't you reiwruwiou. And we're still waiting for those aren't we?
As Benjamin Franklin said 'Any fool can criticise, condemn and complain - and most fools do'”

“Ahh... A bit of wild estimation, an inappropriate comparison, some unfounded speculation (with a dash of personal insult thrown in), a bit of mud-slinging and to top it all off a dash of sweeping generalisation. Remember, "make the lie big..."

Oh, if Rosemary Clarke was a councillor in Bristol, then she would be ideally placed to deal with Tesco - when the store was built at Lime Tree Road in Bristol they actually knocked down the Lime trees in question as well as cutting down a protected Oak tree (they payed the fine.) As promised to local groups, they didn't put a restaurant in the store - they simply got Costa Coffee in. I wonder if many of the businesses who thought that they would be unaffected by Tesco (e.g. Cafes, restaurants, etc) realise what the promise Tesco made to Brixham 21 (no in store restaurant) actually means...”

“The BBC's programme on Totnes shopping last week reported that there are 169 retail outlets in Totnes and based on that (and I'm going to take their word for it) I've put a figure of 150 for Brixham; it's probably not smack on but it's too late to go out and count them. Out of that 150 or so there are about six displaying Brats posters, unless, of course, we take on board your view reiwruwiou that there are some who are fearful of upsetting people, the inference being that they are putting their businesses first (quite rightly) and won't display a Brats poster because they believe that Brats are in a minority and they stand more to gain from the pro developers than the 'we don't want changers'. It does make sense doesn't it? Because otherwise they would display a Brats poster wouldn't they?
Actually that BBC report on Totnes shopping was quite interesting. Out of that figure of 169, just 39 were retail chains with the rest being individually owned and Totnes has - yes we know what's coming don't we - a very large supermarket in town, as well as a decent sized Co-op as well.
As for the recent by election, a polling clerk at that election reports (see comments on town centre planning application) a considerable amount of people told him that they weren't at all that fond of Brats but were totally against the Lib Dems after that party's alliance with the Conservatives and were out to punish them at any cost. Couple that with Labour's high standing in the polls at the moment and it is hardly surprising that many people would have voted for the Labour candidate – ie the opportunistic Rosemary Clarke (she served as a Labour councillor in Bristol for some years and also stood as a Labour candidate in Torbay at the last elections) who, like a seasoned chancer, greedily grasped the Brats banner at that recent town council by election. We now have one more Labour councillor on the town council (although what kind of Labour person would spurn the opportunity of the job creating town centre development I not sure) who, like Mike Morey, had to use a political flag of convenience to get there.
That election certainly cannot be seen as and out and out vote for Brats. Without doubt some people would have voted for that reason but many others would have seen it as a chance for a pro Labour and anti Lib Dem vote.
The Brats petition can be taken with a pinch of salt. By Brats own admission 'not all of the signatures are from local people'. We have also seen comments on this site and letters in the HE from people who admitted to signing it more than once and from others who signed just to stop Brats pestering them (usually to no avail).
Brats recently called their members to arms for a show of strength and to gather in the town centre car park when their dodgy dossier was presented to Labour councillor, oops, sorry, Brats councillor Rosemary Clarke. I counted about 45 out of, what was that figure again, oh yes 2000.
As far as polls are concerned the only official poll we've had that referred to a town centre supermarket was the one in 2008 in which one question asked if the residents thought that a five storey supermarket development was too large and they answered No, they did not think it too large.”

“That's it JasonDD. As Hitler once said, "Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it."

You are offering no more than conjecture and insults, and if the facts as they stand don't seem to be supporting your assertions then they must be wrong.”

“reiwruwiou , you are obviously one of the very insignificant BRATS minority in favour of leaving Brixham to die due to lack of shoppers in the town centre or perhaps in favour of more charity shops.
We dont need to try and manipulate statistics to support a flawed arguement.
Speak to the majority of shop owners in the town and they will confirm their support for Tesco in order to get more people back into the town.
After months of annoying persistence promoting their pettiton BRATS secured 2000 signatures - hardly evidence that the people of Brixham dont want the Tesco development to go ahead. Most of those were probably pensioners who due to altzeimers didn't realise they had already signed it 5 times before.”

“reiwruwiou , you are obviously one of the very insignificant BRATS minority in favour of leaving Brixham to die due to lack of shoppers in the town centre or perhaps in favour of more charity shops.
We dont need to try and manipulate statistics to support a flawed arguement.
Speak to the majority of shop owners in the town and they will confirm their support for Tesco in order to get more people back into the town.
After months of annoying persistence promoting their pettiton BRATS secured 2000 signatures - hardly evidence that the people of Brixham dont want the Tesco development to go ahead. Most of those were probably pensioners who due to altzeimers didn't realise they had already signed it 5 times before.”

“Jenny12, again, the assumption is that if you have a BRATS poster in your window you are against Tesco, but if you don't, you are are in favour. hardly scientific, especially as some shop owners may not display the posters for fear of upsetting some people. I'd also be interested in where the figure of "150" comes from.

As I understand it, a poll was conducted in 2009 by Brixham Harbour traders, who were asked if they would like just a car park or a car park with a Tesco - only 10 out of 88 opted for the Tesco option. The more recent report (by BRATS) canvassed 97 traders, only 14.5% said that it would have a positive effect. OK, this was a BRATS survey, but it is hardly indicative of the statement "the majority of shop owners are fully supporting the bid from Tesco" and certainly more representative than a count of BRATS posters in windows.

This the crux - claims about "the majority of people / traders being in favour of Tesco" are heresay with, as yet, no hard evidence to back them up. Conversely, the results of a council election as well as two polls seem to disprove this statement.”

“He probably bases it on the fact that out of about 150 retail outlets in Brixham only about half a dozen shops have BRATS posters in their windows and if you take a look at those establishments it is patently obvious that is is in interests of the proprietors of those places to keep Brixham as downmarket as possible as that image perfectly suits their businesses.”

“JasonDC, you say "The usual objection is along the lines of a supermarket being bad for local business' in teh town however on this occasion the majority of shop owners are fully supporting the bid from Tesco" - on what do you base this statement? I have only seen one piece of research which state that the majority of traders were against Tesco coming to town. OK, the survey was conducted by BRATS, but I'm sure that if the research backed up your claim (rather than theirs) then it would have found itself in their recycling bin. I have seen no counter - research showing a broad swathe of support amongst traders for Tesco. Also, on what grounds do you claim that BRATS is a minority organisation? I'd say that, at best, it was too close to call.”

“I can't believe this minority organisation is given so much publicity.
Brixham needs Tesco to kick start the regeneration of the town and create some jobs we are despearetly in need of.
Instead of creating barriers the people of Brixham need to support the bid and maybe try and get some more added benefits such as support for Shoalstone pool through a Section 106 contribuion.
The usual objection is along the lines of a supermarket being bad for local business' in teh town however on this occasion the majority of shop owners are fully supporting the bid from Tesco - they nned more footfall through the town and Tesco will help them acheieve this.”