“Perhaps Mr Brown thinks there might be some votes gained by Pro Hunting and is now playing down, He started it Miss”

“:| That's very Interesting Theo. . I was only taking the Mickey, honestly. . :( Sorry. . I got rid of all my shotguns a few years ago. . Too much hassle with licensing. . My favourite was an old top lever double barrelled Page Wood hammer gun with Damascus barrells. . I was in the REME for a short while. . We used SLRs of course, but I did have an old 303 that was converted as .410 shotgun. . Not really very useful though. . Ah well; those were the days.”

“Charles.

I am a country _person_ but not a country _man_, if by "countryman" you mean someone who _uncritically_ supports fieldsports. For instance, I support rough shooting, but not driven shooting.

I have shot one bore of a shotgun once in my life. That's it. But I did get the target - a goose on the wing.

Many, many years ago, I was Northern Ireland schools cadet force champion with a 303. The targets were cardboard Fenians (or Republican Nationalists as we now call them in these more PC days).

Also was quite good with a Stirling sub-machine gun, as in those distant days, issued to NI police. The Stirling was excellent for shooting night-time cows that did not answer a challenge.”

“:| Have you ever used shotgun's Theo? . Indeed, have you ever shot a fox? . Have you ever shot anything? . Somehow I just don't think you have. . :D :D :D You are not a country person Theo! . You really just make me laugh! . And no Theo, the best way to shoot foxes is calling foxes to rifle with a lamp, (with a distress call) :) . . . Best Charles. . PS. But hunting is more natural. . It gets the sickly ones first.”

“@ Giles.

I would be the first to agree that people shoot too many stags and not enough hinds. My shooter has instructions to shoot hinds only. It is, unfortunately, the "country types" who shot the stags as the antlers look good above the mantelpiece. For some reason, the wider the antlers, the more "status" the dead beast brings to some shooters - shooters who are CA members.

For those who don't know, hinds breed, so produce more deer for the future.”

“Theo I protect my coppice just by chasing the deer out of it on a regular basis using my dogs.

Unfortunately it is illegal under the Hunting Act to flush deer out of cover unless you shoot them.

How's that for a barmy law?

The other thing about stalkers is that they tend to act individually and do not always manage the deer population properly. Especially with regards to often shooting too many stags and not enough hinds.

Moreover I would not want stalkers on my land or on my neighbours because of the considerable risk from rifle bullets.

Far better to blast them with a shotgun at point blank range as do the hunt.”

“Charles. The quick way to get rid of a fox is a shotgun. Or a trap or snare and shotgun. I really don't think backyard chicken keepers are going to phone the hunt and wait ten weeks until they attempt to chase and _catch_ the fox.

We country people are not stupid, Charles.

I have a two nice venison joints in my freezer. Shot on my land by a local man. I really am not going to wait for the local satg hounds to chase and (hopefully) kill the deer on my land. I have coppice to protect, and my man does it _now_.”

“:| More irrelevance from Theo. . His Irish ladder nonsense only means the chickens are safe once they are locked up in a fox proof coop. . Even if large free-range areas can be fenced safely. . ALWAYS VERY QUESTIONABLE. . Foxes are very determined critters. . They will chew through wire netting, as will rats. . Traditional farmyards and small holdings have always had poultry around. . My neighbour's wife eventually lost her whole flock of 40 guinea fowl to the foxes. . They can fly and roost in the trees and they also made for an excellent alarm system to warn of 'visitors'. . Foxes are vermin, and they need controlling. . Hunting with dogs is the natural way to control foxes and will ensure a healthy population of them for future generations.”

“Just so we have some facts, here is a clip-clip from Nick Herbert's own website.

"In the 1997 election Nick stood as the Conservative Parliamentary candidate in Berwick Upon Tweed, one of the most rural seats in England. Nick is passionate about defending rural communities. From 1990 to 1996 he worked for the British Field Sports Society, becoming its Director of Political Affairs. In this role he played a leading role in setting up the Countryside Movement, which became the Countryside Alliance."

The interesting thing is that the BFSS never defended haunting as "humane". It wasn't the sort of thing they were talking about. I remember reading their literature, as I wanted to see what they were saying then as a hunt had asked for access to some land I owned. Their leaflet had a picture of a fox emerging from a hen coop with a chicken in its mouth.

However, the coop did not have an Irish ladder to the dor. If there had been an Irish ladder, the fox could not have got in.”

“@ Countryside lover.

You talk about foxes killing lambs. (Forget about foxes killing chicken, I was born on a chicken farm, it is called "fencing".).

A question.

I reckon that a farmer with a flock of 1000 sheep will loose one sheep to a fox each three years. So the fox is not a significant problem.

What is your reckoning as a kill rate?”